Vikki: Welcome to the podcast authors of the Pacific Northwest, where I connect authors with their readers. We also talk all about the authors inspiration, their journey to publication, and the authors will educate me and you the listener all about the business of writing. I'm your host Vikki J. Carter also known as The Author's Librarian. Hi there listeners. It's the host of producer. Vikki J. Carter of this podcast, The Authors of the Pacific Northwest. And before we jump into the episode, I wanted to stop real quickly and share with you the newest project that I'm working on. If you are an author, I think you might be interested in it. I have a YouTube channel that I just launched called The Author's Librarian on YouTube. And on that YouTube channel, I am going to share with you free, accessible resources that you can use to help you with researching. I'm going to give you tips. I'm also interviewing librarians and I'm writing a book to help authors with researching. So you hope you find me there on that YouTube channel. You can find the link in the show notes. Now let's get to the program.
Vikki: So hi there, podcast listeners. Thank you so much for coming back to the Authors of the Pacific Northwest. And today I have the privilege of introducing you to a new friend of mine. I'm going to call her my friend, Kim Taylor Blakemore. So Kim say hi to everyone. Hello, everybody, Kim. I'm so glad we have you on the podcast. So let me tell you guys a little bit about how I met Kim. I was involved with, and I'm not going to say it right, but Jolabokaflod .
Kim: Jolabokaflod PDX.
Vikki : There we go. PDX in Portland. I'm just going to say that works. the poor gals, Margaret and Elizabeth had tried me to get that down. Right I wasn't doing it right. But, Kim was one of the authors that was featured in that for the PDX, event. And so I went to several of the events and Kim, I went to the historical fiction authors panel, of course. And that's where I met Kim. And I'm instantly Instagramming her while she's talking. Kim, can you come on my podcast So we have worked this out. We finally got her on the podcast. That's a feeling later. So, so Kim, I just revealed half of the first questions that I ask you, but why don't you share with the listeners, first off, where do you live in the Pacific Northwest
Kim: I live in McMinnville and that's in, sort of the Northwest corner of the Willamette Valley. And I moved here very recently from Portland, so,
Vikki: Oh, okay. Have you always been a Portlander where you originally raised
Kim: I lived in Portland for 13 years. And before that I lived in Monterey, California where I grew up. Well, 13 years
Vikki: We can say your resonance.
Kim: Yeah. I think I'm getting close there. That's your duck feed, right Exactly. Yeah. Well, this year I'm going to actually break down and get duck boots, which I never had, but I've wanted them the whole time.
Vikki: Oh, you have to have them. And we just, so listeners, you know, I record these, in advance before they come out. So when this comes out, we're going to be heading into our spring rainy season. That's right. But we just got done with about three or four days of snow. How much snow did you get Kim in your area?
Kim: Two inches, but we had a massive ice storm. So I had a whole tree snap in half in the front yard. And in the backyard, two huge limbs off of a birch are laying on the ground and across the neighbor's fence. The fence is brick, so well.
Vikki: Thinking, is that a knock your power out.
Kim: Exactly. And you guys got a lot of snow.
Vikki: We did. I couldn't believe it. We measured at one point and this is huge for us, cause I'm on the valley floor in my area. And so we got seven inches at one point. I think it was, I think we did end up with a foot by the end of it. I couldn't believe it. I had snow, when I took the dogs out, I had snow way up my calf on my boots. And I'm like, okay, I'm not used to this. This is fun. Let's go in. I'm done.
Kim: Such a strange event for us because we, you know, this is our time of grim and gray and rainy. Yeah. Yeah. So it's so fun when we get this. And I'm sure people in Ohio right now, I think they're at eight inches and it started five minutes ago. Yeah.
Vikki: What are you complaining about So here are you talking about, it's a funny phenomenon for anybody that lives in Northwest. You're going to laugh about this, but my daughter came over and she's older. She's 24. She came over. She goes, okay. So what's the deal with people in snow shovels here in the Northwest. We don't get enough snow. Why do they have snow shovels and snow blowers . And we were laughing because our neighbors all around us, they're older retirees, God love them. They're out there struggling. And I'm like, did they only buy it for this one event? They've had it in their shed this whole time, like in two days, why are we shoveling Exactly.
Kim & Vikki: Exactly. But you know what it is is I think it's because of the ice underneath. I think so. Okay. It's treacherous. We have to, we have to give it that.
Vikki: Okay. I'll give you that. I was like, Hmm. People stop shoveling.
Kim & Vikki: I have, I do not own a raincoat. You don't raincoat. I just wear my jean jacket and go like it'll dry. Yep. That's that's a Pacific Northwest thing. Okay.
Vikki: That is a Pacific Northwest thing. Because, when I go out with my friends, if we're anywhere, not if I have to travel or whatever, and it starts raining and everybody's pulling out their umbrellas and stuff, I'm like, what is wrong with you getting an umbrella? It's just rain.
Kim & Vikki: Yeah. I'm like, I have one in the back of my car, behind the seat and I don't think I've ever opened it. I have two, one at the front door
Vikki: and one the back door. And I never opened them up. I go out for walks with the dogs in the rain. I, I just don't, I don't use it. Cause you know, here's another thing, boy, we're really talking about Northwest weather, but this is good. So people that aren't from the Northwest, you might not understand this. Here's the thing I've always hated about using an umbrella when I'm driving my car. So you get the umbrella, it's soaking wet. You have to get it into your car. So now you're getting all this water all over you and your car and you might as well have not used an umbrella at all. There you go. So that's my philosophy of umbrellas. Okay. Pacific Northwest, we love it. No, it's a lot of fun. So Kim share with us a little bit about your background. You and I were talking before we hit record about some of the exciting things I'm doing. We have a little bit of shared background. So share with our listeners a little bit about yourself. First, are you an author full time? Walk through that process for you.
Kim: Great. So yes, I write, historical mysteries now and I am very close to being a full-time author, but I also have a novel coaching program too, that I do. Okay. So both of those. And we will we'll we'll see what, what occurs with them. I really growing that this year and of course writing books.
Vikki: Yeah. Kind of feels like we have to do, as authors, more than just write books. I feel like you have to have like some other little niche to move into to be able to create a decent income out of it.
Kim: Yeah. I think that, I like it because I came from teaching to begin with, so my very original teaching, I was my master's is in orientation and mobility for the blind. So I started out teaching blind and visually impaired adults, cane travel and travel. And then I moved into teaching in a business college, everything from computer programs to business classes, to English classes. Yeah. Yeah. I know that. I still love teaching, you know, so I was like, I really wanted to take what I've learned and as I'm learning as a writer and give that to other people. And I think there's a lot of times that people, you know, writing a novel is really lonely. So you're in a room by yourself and you're hoping it works and you are making your own deadline if it's your first book. And then it's like, I don't want to do it anymore. I don't, you know, the doubt creeps in.
Vikki: The self-doubt is a real thing.
Kim: The not, not really knowing where you are in the story arc or what's happening with the characters. And I really wanted to, I taught in, with PDX writers in Portland and that was a lot more prompt based generative writing. And I was like, I really want to hit the novelist, help them, that have that much longer process. So you know, it started with just workshops on manuscript. And then I had longer workshops for historical fiction novelists. I'm going to do another one of those this summer. And then just really long. So it's literally, people have worked with me for... I've had people for two years now working on their novel and other ones, some people I do developmental editing for who have published before. So it's a very different process for them, but it's a lot, you know, I kept hearing like, I need accountability. I need someone to get me that high level feedback. Plus then, you know, what's going on every week. And, and it's like, you have to turn something into me every week.
Vikki: Oh, I love that. I think that's a really valuable model and a valuable aspect. Especially, I don't know about every other genre, cause I'm, I'm currently writing historical fiction and I feel like we as historical authors can go forever on a manuscript, especially when we start doing research and we start writing I mean, it can go forever. And having that accountability is so very important. But before we dive deeper, this, I want to backtrack a little bit because I'm curious because I have a question. How did you get started in the very first aspect of, of helping individuals that were blind? Did you come from a family with that background, or how did you land into that?
Kim: That's one of those weird things you have in life. So I had in college, I was an actress. I had a theater company in Los Angeles. And I kept looking at it going, I don't want to work in TV and film, and I don't want to be a gypsy and travel the country and be an actor. So it was like, what can I do? And I was literally watching TV during this huge recession in Los Angeles. I couldn't even get a job. Every job they're like, you're overqualified for. I'm like, I'm an actor. How can I be overqualified for this job I was like, what am I going to do? And so I was watching TV and there was a documentary on guide dogs for the blind. And I was like, that is something I could do that lets me give back. So I immediately started finding where is the school that teaches something like this.
Kim: And in Los Angeles is one of the gosh at the time, I think there was only nine schools that taught orientation and mobility for the blind. So I contacted them. I said, I would like to know more about this field. And they're like, okay, why don't you go watch someone teach at a school. So, this is not with, dogs. So that's a very different program, but I went and watched this guy teach, middle school kids, take them out and teach them cane travel and orientation skills, ect . And I was like, wow, this is a very cool job. So I went back and I said, that's very cool. I really liked that. And it's very different from theater. I don't want do theater anymore. And I don't want the silly jobs you have while you're doing theater. Yeah.
Vikki: Oh yeah, exactly. The waitress,
Kim: God, the waitress, you know, I don't know about you if you've waitressed and this is completely going off topic, but I used to have nightmares about waitressing. There were the worst nightmares of my life.
Vikki: Honestly, I have to admit, I didn't have an actual table waitressing job, but I worked in a deli behind the counter. And that was enough for me. My very first job was fast food. And then it was that job. And I'm like, that is enough, but customer service skills, I excelled at them after those jobs. I learned how to read people.
Kim: You, learn them from those jobs for sure. Yeah, so I went in and I interviewed at the school and the woman was like, well, we would like to have you in the program. We only take three people a quarter. And I was like, what? She, she said, what we like is that you have no bad habits. Yeah. You're coming in. And we can really, really let you you're coming with a clean slate. And, it was great. It was a really great job. I ended up moving to Colorado and, and working at the Colorado rehabilitation center. I taught adults. that was great.
Vikki: And I can imagine just from my mind, not knowing the job itself, but I can imagine the communication style that you would have to have is very articulated well. So, then when you transfer into that into adult education, when you started teaching, you know, in college, it probably really lended well to communication, I could imagine. Yeah.
Kim: It was teaching at the rehab center. I had moved from Los Angeles to Boulder, Colorado. And the first winter was, I didn't understand. I didn't understand. Like I had to get up at six in the morning and scrape my car and my hair was really long and it would freeze cause I'd taken a shower. So click around my head, you know. And that was when I started writing because I was like, I don't know what to do. Cause I don't ski.
Vikki: Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, I don't either. I can't ski. I kill myself. I ski.
Kim: I was really into history, always my whole life. And I really fell in love with the historical society. And the historical museum in Denver is outstanding. And I would literally take the bus into Denver just to hang out there. and do a lot of going to all the little small towns and learn about history. And that's when I first started writing my first book.
Vikki: So let's talk a little bit about that. Going backwards, because the book we're going to talk about that I've already read is going to come out in March. So by the time you guys are listening to this, everybody it's already out. So make sure you get it. Cause it's really good. And I'm not just saying that, cause I'm talking to Kim it's because I'm a critical historical reader. And so, just because it's the genre I love. So talk with us a little bit about your writing journey. Have you always written, historical fiction or in, in, since this one is historical fiction mystery, has that always been your genre?
Kim: I started out the first book was a middle-grade historical, set in the Depression of Colorado. And I was born in Denver. So I had a really great time talking to people who'd lived on the plains during, the Depression. That, you know, they didn't have electricity out there until like 1952. And so it's always been history, has always been my thing. So that was historical fiction. Then Bowery Girl is set in 1883 New York and that's like straight up historical fiction. Then The Companion is a historical psychological thriller and as is after Alice Fell. Yeah. So, and so those two are both set in the same area of New Hampshire. The Companion is set in 1855, After Alice Fell is set right after the Civil War in 1865.
Vikki: Yeah. So where was the jumping off point for you as an historical author from writing historical accounts, you know, having, historical fiction to the mysterious part of things? Because that's the part that I love the most about this book When Alice Fell was that it was totally mystery. But I've never really in my mind thought about writing historical mystery as much until I read your book. And I'm like, huh, there's a lot of interesting stuff that happens in history that could be used. So where did that switch for you? Did you start really falling in love with that genere because you're reading more of it or is it just how the stories laid out?
Kim: The period, I am going to stop right there. So it really started with The Companion and that the character in The Companion is, in prison and about to be hung, hanged for her crimes of killing two people in the house she worked at. And that started from a vision I had of a woman in a white cell with a very high window, very, sharp light. And she was sitting in a chair and she turned to me and said, stories move in circles. And I was like, what the heck? So I pulled out my notebook and just started writing her voice. And then I let it go aside. I tried to write another, straight historical fiction set after World War II. And I edited that one to death. When we get to talking about writing, I want to talk about over editing.
Vikki: We will go there because it's a problem. Yeah.
Kim: You can kill books and I've done it. Yeah. So that character sort of stayed with me for a while and I knew it was going to end up being very gothic. A nd, and I never called it a mystery. I said, you know, she killed the people. You don't know why. So she may or may not at the time when I wrote it, that's what I thought. And by the time it was edited through the edits, it's, you don't know if she killed these people or not. And that was the point of the story is who really did it by the end. And then, I had a two book deal. So that's the brand. It's historical thrillers with a Gothic edge, very fierce and wicked women, that sort of thing. And I was like, what am I going to write next? And my brother sort of helped talk me through the topic.
Kim: He's like you just got to be the queen of Gothic fiction. Thank you, Casey, my brother. And I was on a plane and I pulled out my notebook and I was like, what is like the most Gothic thing you could possibly have? Let's do an asylum. Yeah. I started writing it and I said, I'm going to set it. I'd already gone to New Hampshire to do research and had already been past the asylum there. So I had an idea of where it was and had done some research on it for The Companion. And I just started writing and Marianne, the lead character was right on page one, looking at her dead sister. And I'm like, that's the story. Yeah. Yeah.
Vikki: It's, it's brilliant. And I was wondering how you picked it or it picked you, you know? I knew that there had to, you've had to mess around with some research around how females were treated in asylums in history, because it's very clear in, and listeners we're talking about After Alice Fell, the book that I read. I haven't read the other ones, but they are on my reading list. And it's very, very clear that you've picked up and highlighted the possible terrible mistreatment of women in asylums. For ridiculous reasons, women were put in asylums, for being hysterical when it was just normal life. Right? So, so I found that very interesting. I was wondering how that came to you. So did it come through the, did you have somebody in your past, in this situation or was it that it just came to from your research?
Kim: Well, the story itself came from writing it and just letting the people talk on the page. I really liked to, to sort of audition books and let them go and see what the voice is and what the story is. And that one just first page was the first page that I wrote is literally the first page of the book. Hasn't changed from that. And that's kind of how I knew. And then I have to go through about 50 pages before I decide if it's going to stick as a book. There's a lot of misnomers about women being treated in prison that get sort of over dramatize. And one is they're hysterical. Their husbands hate them. They read novels, whatever it is, they were had postpartum depression, ect . Is that true that people were put in prisons? Yes, not prisons in asylums because of those things?
Kim: Yes. At certain asylums. But as you know, writing historical fiction and being a researcher, you have to be detailed and specific to the area you're writing about. So I happen to have a rockstar Librarian who works at the New Hampshire State Library. And I had seen her for The Companion. She actually got me in touch with the archivists at the state archives. And I saw real materials for the prisons when I wrote The Companion and found a real Murderous at the time. But when I contacted her about this book, she said, we need to get into the asylum.
Kim & Vikki: Oh, I love her . And I love her. She's amazing.
Kim: Rebecca Stockbridge. She is my rock star. I literally
Vikki: You're on my podcast. So she could talk about how she, you have to get, I will get you her info because I will bring her on because this is like right up my alley.
Kim: In The Companion she would like write me first. I'm like, I don't know what happens with the women in prison. This is very, very short thing. She goes, Oh, I have all the prison records. Would you like them? So she had all the reports from the Warden. So she had the reports from the New Hampshire asylum for the criminally insane also are sitting in that library. So the peoples who were in the asylum, their records are sealed. And actually we couldn't get into the asylum. It's falling apart. It's dangerous. We contacted the manager. He's like no way, no. So I was doing a lot of Google maps and looking at it at the same time I was reading the reports. So at that particular library, excuse me, that particular asylum, they had very specific rules so that when someone was brought into the asylum, whether a man or a woman there had to be a second person there with them.
Kim: So this asylum was created by the Quakers. And the Quakers felt that it was fresh air and industry that was going to help people have respite from their unease. And that is how it started. So it was all good intentions. And, and, and this is the thing about historical fiction to me is when you write it, you need to write as they thought things were. Yeah. Yeah. So we can see some very horrid, horrid, you know, ways people were treated or treatments that were done that may not have been hoarded to what they thought at the time. Cause right, when this book was, it was for Knology, ice baths, really horrible things. As you know, Alice's head is put in a box and she's not down with that. But it was to, they felt with that box of blackness that you could control the mania because you're taking out all the outside stimulus, but Alice in the book is afraid of the dark.
Kim: So this is a terrible place. Right yeah. So these, these were incredible records they were given. I was looking at my notes, as right before this and there was, each form of disease. So there's 53 people in the asylum for acute mania, which would be more like, bipolar manic episodes. And then chronic mania, dementia, senility, melancholy, epilepsy , which was a common. That to me was really sad. Monomania, obsession with one thing, right? Idiocy. Constitutional Obliquity; this one, I was like, what? What is that? That is a deviation from moral rectitude or sound mind. Now there's where you get those things about the
Kim: Gray area, right?
Kim: Where they grabbed the, the women. Yeah.
Vikki: "There's a very loud woman who won't shut up."
Kim: They had one person there who was not insane. That's how they were marked. And this person actually lived there, and tended the gardens and was told you're not insane. And they said, I've known no other place. Oh, he stayed there. But I didn't end up using that asylum in the book. I ended up making my own up. And one of the reasons was, is I could not get enough material on who ran the asylum and the treatments used at that specific asylum. And I really don't want to denigrate or make someone bad who wasn't. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I just couldn't do it. I'm like, just set it in Harbor again and make up your own asylum. You can make them do all the things you want with the research.
Vikki: And right t here is such a huge... I don't know what the word is not coming to me. Standard for researching, well. I can't give a better example of an author from what you just said, that you, you had so much authority, I would say. Or, authenticity for yourself of knowing that you did not want to write something that wasn't accurate from what you found. And accurate enough that you can base it on there. And so you just used what you learned and constructed your own world around that. I think that's really, really valuable to know. It's the one thing that I struggle with, when I help authors with research or something, is that we got to still be very, very careful about what we say and how we use that research. And especially in fiction work, because it should inspire you to be able to write your stories. But like you said, we shouldn't like terrorize people from the past. I guess you can say.
Kim: I don't want to make someone a villain who wasn't. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.
Vikki: I just think that's so good. That's so good. And I'm just fumbling around with what I'm trying to say. It's been one of those long days. Okay. So...
Kim: Okay. So let ask snow and ice, come on, give yourself a break.
Vikki: So let's jump into the writing process and I'm going to start that with a burning question, because I'm a Librarian and I love to ask this question of authors, for your writing process for this, you already kind of talked about When Alice Fell, the story kind of came to you by researching and working on the other book. So then did you write the story and then you had to go back and kind of fill in some research? Or were you simultaneously researching or using research from the past? My point is this, did research help you at the beginning in that aspect? Or did you scramble to get your research facts at the end?
Kim: I have a very specific process. I use to do it, and it's mostly because I had a deadline for this book. So it was written completely in 10 months. Oh, wow. And I had already done a lot of research of the time and the area during The Companion. So I had that. So I already had an idea of the moras of the 18th, excuse me, the 19th century and that decade. But, I will start with reading some overview things. So, what I mean by that is not Wikipedia. Thank you. I will find books that were written nowadays. Like I have a one, I don't know, Murder Most Foul or Hawkers and Walkers about people and things in the time. That gives me a very quick overview of things and maybe some little elements. But after that, I look for books and newspapers that were written in the time period.
Kim: So, I have a book of a doctor's diaries from the Civil War. And that's what gave me the nurse's outlook in this book. The newspapers gave me how they thought, what they thought was interesting. What was funny, what was going on at the time. And I, you can find these, you can find diaries. So I read an entire set of, not all of them, but because there was so many, but letters from a woman to her husband from before the civil war, through the civil war and then her son growing up. So this really interesting idea about how they thought of the war. So, you know, it's like those little tiny things. You're a historian so you understand this. So when Marion goes to war to be a nurse, it's not because she wanted a career, but it was because she was affirm abolitionist and it was her way to stop slavery. Yeah.
Vikki: Yeah. And therefore there were some sacrifices that had to be made.
Kim: Exactly. So the sacrifice was not selfish in letting Alice be taken care of by her brother. Yeah. Right. So those are sort of the things. So I don't read once I start writing, I don't read anything that's after the date of the story. So those stories I'm working on now is 1877. All my things, all my readings or books from that time period and before.
Vikki: Yeah. I love it. Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to hear. But that's because I'm fishing for it. But honestly, it's something that's very paramount in my mind is that, that I appreciate that you didn't start with Google or Wikipedia. You actually started primary sources, which is only best sources for authors. And I can't tell you how many times authors will tell me they don't even know what I'm talking about. And I love sharing that with them, right.
Kim: That's why Librarians and research author, researchers like you are so incredibly important because there's a lot of research. And if you don't know how to find it, like I said, I have a Librarian I call. I don't even call, I email her. Like this book I'm working on now is about spiritualism. And in the same period in New Hampshire. She's like already gone to the basement cause they have all the stuff there. I love it. It's totally haunted down there, but I'm going.
Vikki: That's the thing. That's the beautiful thing that I'm trying to really pitch in my new world as The Author's Librarian is that authors and librarians can have very natural partnerships that are so beneficial. And I think that we lose sight of that, with the digital age where it's so easy to just jump on and ask a question, but there's so many flaws in that, but we won't go into that. Because that's my whole YouTube channel. That's my whole thing. But I love to hear why, how you started. So in your writing process, do you usually write your first draft and then how, how do your drafts go about? And you're traditionally published with all your work if I remember, right. Correct. Okay. So walk us through the original writing process.
Kim: So the writing process is very, very disciplined about looking for, well, I have deadlines now, so it's, even if you're not, don't have a contract have a deadline because it lets you backtrack what you want to do. So I pretty much know my books are going to be about 80,000 words and 30 chapters and I like to write 10 or 12 page chapters. So that allows me to say, how many scenes can I put in a chapter and then, after that, I'm not an outliner. I basically know that opening scene. I know a few main elements that I want the characters conflict between the two or three main characters. And then I will write at the ending that may or may not be the ending, but it's something to shoot for because I think if you don't know where that goes, where your last resonant, you know, image of that book is you you're going to ride along and you may be wanting to get to Chicago and you end up in Duluth. And you're like,
Kim & Vikki: I ended up in Duluth. It's so true. A know that a little bit though.
Kim: So I write straight forward. I don't do a lot of, you know, yeah, moving ahead because my characters surprise me and they tell me things, I really love leaving things sort of loose and all these sort of tendrils and tangents. And then as I get further in and really not until I'm in the absolutely, I'm going to die of anxiety in the end of act two, because I think nothing's going to work and nothing is working. But at that point, if I can take a step back, I can look at all those things that I laid out there before and say, that thing is a great thing, pick that up. And it can be something really small. It can be like that weird round mirror that you had in act one. You need to use that for a plot point and act three, right Yeah. So it's very much, I, you know, I don't know what else to say about it right forward. Oh, I know what I, and I, this is where I was going to talk about the death of books by over editing. Let's talk because I am in that moment right now.
Kim: I write the chapter or the day's work, which may just be a scene. And the only thing I do with it is do a spell check and one read through to see if big sections can need to be moved. And then I move on and if I see something like, Oh, that doesn't make sense. I have another little notebook that I just jot a note, change this, look back on this. And I keep a list of those notes, but I keep moving forward because I don't know what if I need to change or what I need to change. So that allows me to finish the book. So if you need words and you need pages, and then you're like, wow, I can take, I try and build it so I have about three or four thousand extra words in there that I can cut.
Kim: Right. And I write very, as you could, I write pretty densely. So my books are, you know, I try and like have things do double-duty. Because I'm not a long book reader. If I see a book and it's like 500 pages, I'm like, no, I'll never get to the end. I can't. I just won't. But, anyway, so I had had a book that was called Under the Pale Moon and I loved it and was set after World War II in Monterey about a husband and wife and their relationship after the war. And my God, I edited the first 10 chapters of that for two years!
Kim: Oh no. And they were so beautiful and I kept going back and fixing it and they were so beautiful.
Kim: And then I couldn't do, I couldn't do anything else. Yeah. Because killed it. I just like took all the life out of it. And, you know, books and writing, I think have to have some roughness and wildness and freedom and energy in the words. So that was a big lesson for me and over editing and I will never go back to it.
Vikki: When we get done with writing the first draft and keeping that long running list of notes, then you go back and you edit, how do you stop yourself from over editing at that time?
Kim: Well, at that time, I've, you know, I've, I've gotten really good at sort of doing editing on the fly also. So I can't even, that's just from practice, but then I'll go back and take, so the book's done. And then I will take like a week and go through all those notes that I have and see what needs to be changed from those notes and what I can throw out because I changed the story anyway. So it's like, if you say, Oh, I'm adding a new character, but I'm on page 120. I need that character in the first chapter, don't go back to the first chapter and put him in, pretend you did and can just continue on with the character, because then the character builds himself. You go back in, you put them in, you drop them in where you need it.
Kim: And that's a little, you know, it's efficient, it's a time-saver. And so then I'll do that. I'll go through that list. And then I have two colleagues of mine. One's an amazing writer in New Zealand who I just love her work and I send it to them. And I say, just look over it as a reader and give me your thoughts and notes and what's falling apart. What do you see? And then they send me back lovely, two or three pages of things. And I look through that and decide what is similar, right? So, all readers have different tastes, but what is the image What are the things that are the same in here Because that means I have a problem to fix. After I've done that, then it goes to the editor,
Vikki: You have nailed in on all the things I usually ask in questions. So I appreciate that. I don't have to ask all of my questions, but the one thing that I think is so valuable is that your self editing process you've honed in on how not to destroy a story. And that sad, that that story is gone. Maybe you'll revive someday in your future. We hope, right?
Kim: I don't know. You know, that was so much of like kind of a dark romance. And now I'm like all of it has to have dead bodies. Now. I don't know what happened to my, yeah. I turned into like the modern Daphne du Maurier. Where's the murder?
Vikki: Awesome. Mystery murders works are in my life. It's like, Oh, I have every genre idea. I mean, but seriously, the mystery murder thing. Cause I'm always the one in a movie like, yeah, that wouldn't have happened. Oh, I know who killed so-and-so very first scene. My husband's like, can you just not for once not predict. And I'm like, no, I know it's happening.
Kim: I will never forget my father and I went and saw when I was really young, he took me to see Agatha Christie's The Mirror Cracked. And so we're sitting in it and the first scene starts and he turns to me and he says, blah, blah, blah, did it.
Kim: And I was like, you just ruined the whole movie.
Vikki: I know. I have had to learn to keep my mouth shut. But the thing is is that they don't believe me unless I say it at some point. Because we'll get out of a movie or something and I'll be like, yeah, I knew that was going to happen. Like, no, you didn't mom. You know, I'm like, okay. So I'm going to tell it at a strategic time. So you knew I knew it. Because I have to be right. Okay. So, there was another point... oh, I wanted to make. I think it's wonderful that you have author friends that are also readers in the sense of a reader aspect of it. My writing dramatically changed when I was finally in the right writers group for me. And I asked a lot of authors about this because I know there are groups and companions and partnerships and writers groups that are detrimental to some authors.
Vikki: And it's been very discouraging for them. For me, I was writing in the closet. Nobody knew I was writing. I was terrified to tell anybody. Be cause I have some severe dyslexia and things like that. So I knew my writing was never going to be clean right out of the gate. And so I'm like, I can't share this with anybody. And but I got invited into a really great strong writers group and none of them are historical fiction authors, which is amazing. And they have been so great and we have deadlines. So we meet every two weeks and even during COVID, I've made them all come on on Zoom with me so that we keep it up. That has expedited my writing process tremendously, but also their feedback has been so great. And so constructive it's helped me to learn the craft.
Vikki: It's helped me to, to learn where plot points needed to be fixed or they even questioned historical values in some aspects, which was valuable for me because we can get in our own silo as a writer, you know, be like, but this is how it's all in my head, but it's obviously not getting translated on paper for my reader to understand. So, I think that's great that you have your, your two people that you send to. Do you have any other organizations or groups that you can recommend to someone who might be listening to this podcast that doesn't have that yet and they don't know where to go or how do you started?
Kim: I think if you're looking for literary groups to go to and start understanding the genre you're writing in and be networking with the read writers in that, if you're women's fiction, I would suggest the Women's Fiction Writers Association, very welcoming, great group of writers. I was in that to begin with I loved it so much I volunteered for their agent pitch week and did all the tech person for that for a year. So you want to find things in your genre. So, international thriller writers, historical novel society, ect. But then look closer to home for if you have any writing communities that read and write. I would I would suggest if you're doing that. I don't personally do writing groups. I don't like critique groups. I think that for me, one or two people who see the full thing helps me better than people seeing pieces. And the reason is that I've seen enough writers in groups as you talked about some can be detrimental. And I don't just mean emotionally.
Kim: Getting over edited too early. And people including yourself, don't know the arc of your book until it's done. So it can throw things off. I think, from from what you're writing that. And that's also why I do novel edits is to let a writer work with somebody so I can see story and ask the story questions. So a good group, like it sounds yours is, is asking and knowing what those story questions are without changing, how you're writing, what your writing .
Vikki: I've been incredibly fortunate. And that was one reason why I was terrified to even get into any sort of group before. Because I've heard the horror stories. And I will admit I'm sensitive. I mean, I don't know any author that is not really truly sensitive. But I'm very sensitive, because you know, when you're, when you're first starting out, I think there's a stage where you have to hear from other people, you have to get feedback, you have to get the craft from other people. But then I think when you do get the stage, cause I was been thinking about it this last week that I think authors might get to a stage where they don't necessarily need that kind of a structure anymore. They might need a more of a mentorship or they need friendship of readers and writers, like you mentioned.
Kim: But I still think you still need to do constantly, constantly work on craft. It's all the time. And you know, I'm lucky in a way that I teach it. So I'm always looking for it.
Vikki: Well, you don't have to say the, you got to really know your stuff if you're going to teach, right? And so I think the best teachers are those that struggled in specific areas. And so then they had to figure it out and then it's an aha moment they have to share with others.
Kim: So constantly looking at that.
Vikki: Awesome. Well, let me ask you about your publication journey. Cause that's always something that's very fascinating to me and my listeners as well. You've always been traditional published. So your first book you did the whole agent pitch or how did that go for you?
Kim: I did. And I'll separate this into two things because Cissy Funk and Bowery Girl where written b efore all of this wealth of communication we have with it was right before everything exploded in terms of the internet and all that. So that was really like go to the bookstore, look in the back of books, see who thanked their agent, make a list and pitch the agent. So I had for Cissy Funk, I knew it was a young adult book and I pitched 27 agents in New York. And the very last one I pitched was George Nicholson. He was at Sterling Lord Literary Agency. I didn't know. I only knew he was thanked in many books. He turned out to be a great agent for me because he was an editor before he became an agent. He started Yearling Press, really big, big editor in New York. And I worked with him on that book and on Bowery girls.
Kim: He did a lot of good edits on those before they went out. So those, took, I can't even, I mean, I don't think it relates to nowadays, so let me move on from those. But that was new. He unfortunately passed away and I had decided I wasn't going to do any young adult fiction anymore. I didn't really like it, it wasn't my genre I liked. Bowery Girls is right in the middle. It sold both as young adult and as women's fiction.
Vikki: Some young adults fiction can cross over a lot to female readers that don't want the junk that they can get in other genres.
Kim: I took a while off and tried to like go what do I want? What do I want to write? And that's when I wrote the book that I edited to death. Then I wrote another book that was set kind of in the same time, but it was a literary novel and it was like a whole bunch of navel gazing and beauty, and was meant nothing.
Vikki: It was for you, it was all just for you.
Kim: Well it let me see I could still finish a book. I was just kind of like learning. I wanted to just learn more and and start teaching writing more and did that. And then, you know, I started writing The Companion and I had a very different process with that. So for readers who were look... okay, I'm going to stop for one second... if you're in the middle of writing your first book, don't listen to me anymore because you should be concentrating on your finishing your story and doing the best strongest story and not worry about what I'm going to talk about now. And I think that interferes and gets in the way of just write the story, be bold and be wild and finish the story.
Kim: For the writers who have finished their stories, I basically did a very similar thing, but in an online, as I did before is I wanted to look and see who was thanking their agent. And I also wanted to hear different agents, what they wanted and like kind of personally wanted. Where had they been interviewed? Who can I read and do that? So I really looked at historical fiction and historical mystery. Those were sort of the right agents I was looking for. And, you know, people look for different things in agents. And I noticed there's two camps of agents. There's the agents who love to edit and help you get that book all in shape, even more. And there's agents who think the editor edits. And so they pick the story they think will sell to that agent. Gotcha. so, and I didn't really think of that at the time.
Kim: Either way would have been fine, but, I really did want to be with a big house and I wanted it to be about sales, to sell, to a bigger publisher. So I narrowed my list down and I created my query letter and I sent it out and I got a couple hits from that. I think I sent out 20 queries and got hits for partials for three, from three of them. And then one of them wrote and basically said she couldn't figure out where to sell it. Well, this was the companion. He couldn't figure out where to sell it. Then the next one basically said it was the most horrible piece of garbage she'd ever read in very nice words, but I can read between lines. Luckily I have a pretty thick skin now.
Vikki & Kim: Well you got to. I was like dang.
Kim: You know you have to listen to what you tell people. So I tell people, agents love books, specific books, just like we as readers do. And it doesn't mean your book is bad. It means, you know, that that person wanted the white refrigerator and not the stainless steel, that's basically what it is.
Vikki: It's about that resounding feeling and that partnership that develops. But, I don't know what I'm talking about.
Kim: I was super impatient cause it was like three weeks of waiting for those. And then I was like something's wrong with my query because I'm not getting the the hits I want. This is where I went to Women's Fiction Writers. They have a query workshop and I was already a member of their group. But you had to write your pitch that goes in your query letter in 55 words. That's really a challenge. And I did. And I said, that's it. So I'm just going to put that line in. That's going to be the pitch. So it's like hello, these are the agents... I saw you, I heard your interview, whatever, here's my one line of what the story is. This is what I published before. Thank you. And that was it. It was like half a page.
Vikki: Leave them hanging.
Kim: That got more hits. And then I was lucky enough. I have a very different story than other people because a lot of people go through a lot of agents. It takes a long time. I basically got an agent from that query in a week and he sold it. He literally sent it the editor who bought it that five minutes after me agreeing to work with him. I love it. And then three weeks later it was sold.
Vikki: And then on the back of that, it was a two book deal.
Kim: Yes. So it was sort of a two book deal. We called it a two book deal. I pitched another book to her before The Companion came out and that sold. That's great. So that's great. That's such great. And that's after Alice Fell, so yeah, that's with Lake Union Publishing. They're an imprint of Amazon publishing.
Vikki: Can you explain that to me, if you don't mind? Because I don't know what that is. So that doesn't mean others listening don't, but I have no clue what that is.
Kim: There's the big five publishers, right? And then there's the next big six, which is Amazon publishing. So they had started I don't know how many years ago, 12 years ago or something, a traditional publishing house. And it's got imprints in it. I'm with Lake Union Publishing and they publish book club fiction, historical fiction. Thomas and Mercer publishes mysteries and thrillers.
Vikki & Kim: They are managing all the royalties as if it's a traditional exactly like a traditional house?
Kim: My first two books, one was with Harper Collins and one was with Viking. It works exactly the same way. It's a traditional house. You know, your, your book goes into your acquiring editor, your editor edits it, or has a developmental editor work on it also. This is classical traditional publishing. The book goes off to the editor when you're done, she does her edits and gives you notes. You revise it. You may get another rewrite. Then when she and you were agreed on it, it goes to the copy editor. So at Lake Union, there's two sets of copy edits that you do with them. Then you have a line editor and then you have a proofreader. So all of this has happened with a style sheet behind it, which I found fascinating because I didn't have a style sheet at Viking. I'm like, what is this thing? Wait a minute. I called like ten people, John?
Kim: Style sheet basically is a beat by beat of the chapters. And then a list of your cast of characters, including dogs, horses, and pigs. And your settings and the timeline, which is great. Because they're like, hey, you have this set here, but it's really three days later than the scene before and whatever. So, so then that's, as that is all happening, the house is also working on marketing materials and on the cover design. All of that is going together.
Vikki: And that is what I was going to ask about because I think the part that I was confused about is that Amazon, so many people self-publish through Amazon. Through KP and all that. That's where I was confused about was this, I didn't know if Lake Union Press was I small press taking it to Amazon for you on your behalf or if there were an imprint. So that makes sense.
Kim: Yeah. So, so KDP publishing and that part, the self-publishing is an absolutely separate business and unit from Amazon publishing.
Vikki: Well, I appreciate you sharing that with me cause I, of course, I mean, cause I'm still just learning. There's so much to learn. It seems like every year there's even new stuff to learn something. So if you hear the dogs, I apologize, everyone. I don't know why she's barking. About the publishing industry. And that's why I wanted to ask the questions of authors, but yours was so unique to me because, and I didn't do any research on it. It was fascinating to me and I thought you could clear that up for me, the difference of, you know, what Lake Union is, who they are. Because there's so many, small presses out there that will do all of it for you, but it's a self-publishing really, but you're hiring somebody to do it for you. And, and that makes me nervous.
Kim: There's the big five everyone wants to be there. Or with Amazon. There were a few editors that were interested in buying the book. And when my agent told me Lake Union was interested, I said, I want all my eggs in that basket because I had read their books before and my books fit perfectly in the line. I loved their vision. I wanted to be traditionally published. It's the whole thing. You have an advance, you have royalties, marketing, whatever. I mean, After Alice Fell is an Amazon first reads right now, which is fantastic.
Vikki: Yeah. It's worthy of it. For sure.
Kim: It certainly helps.
Vikki: I understand the traditional backbones, my husband was in the music industry for years. So we actually had music contracts and music, royalties and handlers. I like to call them handlers, all of the little elements that is involved in all of that. I think that's why for me, as I've been researching what I want to do, I kind of go back and forth. Maybe I want to do independent. No, maybe I don't want to go traditional. What's nice to say you don't necessarily have to make a choice anymore. You can do both.
Kim: I don't have to make a choice. Right. I agree. And it's just depends on for me. I think I'm a slow writer. So when I have to do marketing now it's already enough. I'm like, how would I do that If I was independently publishing? I don't know how I would have the time. It would take so much. And it's not that I won't because I always think, Hm, sometime maybe you will.
Vikki: It's amazing how much, authors have to market still, regardless of what kind of publishing they have the market in general. So that's a whole new thing, but you know, we are getting to the place of where we need to hear from After Alice Fell. We have just chit chatted so much, but before we do that, can you please tell us again, your other titles, how people can maybe get those and then set the stage for After Alice Fell. Kind of tell us the readers or listeners a little bit about the story or what you want to share before you go ahead and go in your reading.
Kim: Okay. So my novels are the two YA novels are Cissy Funkin, Bowlery Girl. Tthe historical thrillers are The Companion, and After Alice Fell. You can get them on Amazon or bookstores wherever you wish to buy them. After Alice Fell is set in New Hampshire in 1865, just after the civil war and Maryanne Abbott is the lead character. She's a widow. She has been a nurse in the civil war and she has come home to find her sister has been committed to an asylum and has died at the asylum. The book starts with Marion going to the asylum and the entire story is her figuring out what happened to Alice. So I think I'll start there and start with chapter one. We'll just do a little bit of a reading. Chapter One: Brawder House. Harrowboro, New Hampshire. August, 1865. "Is it her," the ward attendant holds up the oil tarp.
Kim: He chews on his dark mustache blinks and clears his throat. "I am sorry, Mrs. Abbott. I must ask." I clasp and unclasp my reticule, the metal warm between my thumb and forefinger, the click comforting, steadying in this room with white tile walls and black grout. There's a singular circular grate in the corner; yellowed paint chips from the ceiling clog its pipe. The cold pushes through the floor needles of ice that poke my thin soled boots. Ill chosen meant for summer, not for this chill room. But I hadn't thought; I put on the first pair I found and last night's stockings too, hung from the bedpost because I was too weary to put them away. A note delivered, to blunt. Alice Snow deceased. Please collect. The driver who delivered the note had waited, slumped against his handsom and fanning his face with a folded-up newspaper. His horse, roan and sway back drooled and ground his teeth. The air shimmered and blurred the edges of the fence and abandoned barn across the road.
Kim: It was too early and already too hot here. I had missed an eyelet when buttoning my boots earlier, and now the leather cuts into my ankle. I rubbed the heel of my other shoe against it until the chafed skin burns. Paint chips drift into a crevice of the tarp's fabric, stick like snow to the crown of this dead woman's head. Neat, straight part and white grade skin. Strands of ginger hair, blood stippled, the tangle loose and dangling. A mottle stretch of bruising across her forehead. I lower my gaze to the floor. There are divots there, hollows and gouges. Her body is cooled by a leather- strap block of ice. The body who is Alice. Alice so still, Alice under the tarp. Alice, my sister. She is not meant to be here. Her mouth agape is if she were to share a thought like she used to, when she was very young, her finger to her lip, a shake of that ginger red hair, then "Marion, I wonder..." or "Marion, it's an odd thing..."
Kim: Her voice trailing away as she swallowed the words or clamped her job because I interrupted, finishing out whatever it was she wondered about or found odd. "Everything in and of itself, Alice is so very odd. That one must just consider it normal. Otherwise you'll drive yourself mad." The attendant stares at me.
Kim: "It's her." He lowers the tarp, pulling it up to her forehead. It's too short. Her left foot foot pops free: a dark welt across the bridge crisscross of cuts, thin long toes. Maybe she'll wriggle them. Now as she used to.
Kim: "Look, Marion. I'm royalty. Look at my middle toe. Look at its length."
Kim: "You'll need to sign the certificate." There on the small desk by the square window that looks out on nothing, on a wall of brick and pipe, is the document. Smaller than I would expect.
Kim: Simple and harsh. Record number four five seven three. Name: Alice Snow. Sex: female. Date of birth: February 3rd, 1841. Age: 24. Date of death: August 3rd, 1865. Cause of death: accident, acute mania. Signed: Lemuel, Mayhew MD.
Kim: I've seen too many of these, pinned, too many to uniform lapels. I've seen so many dead: Antietam, Poplar Springs, Spotsylvania. Men stacked on carts, tarps too short to hide the high arches and missing limbs and nails roughly cut. I've signed so many letters, whispered from the soon dead to their loves. Forgive me. Help me. I am almost at heaven, Mother.
Kim: One signature and Alice will be released. One signature to absolve this place of any responsibility for her slipping from the roof, absolve the staff from finding her body splayed on the pebble drive, half tangled in the sharp thorns of pink hedging roses. I dip the pen and hold it above the signature line.
Kim: Ink beads. "What time was she found?" I keep my eyes on the ink. Watch it soak and spread along the short edge. His foot scrapes, the stone floor.
Kim: "You'd need to ask Dr. Mayhew."
Kim: "But Dr. Mayhew isn't here. He's upstairs with my brother. You are here Mr..."
Kim: "Stokes, Russell Stokes."
Kim: "Mr. Stokes." The ink is a river now, rippling around the paper, a black frame around my sister's name, her death, the date. When I hand it over, they'll place it in the brown folder with her name printed neatly on the edge. He waits for me to sign. He is as cold as I am, has his arms crossed over his barrel chest and fists curled rounds. His elbows, his eyes are a muddy hazel and flick with resentment. It's not his fault. He's been assigned this duty. He taps his finger on the corner of the ice table.
Kim: "She didn't suffer."
Kim: "Yes, she did." I turned from the desk, holding out the official certificate, officially identifying the now official death of my sister, Alice Louise Snow, and watch as t he attendance shoots a glance at it before setting it a top of the folder.
Kim: "She's afraid of the dark." I take my gloves from my pocket and fumbled them on. "I must find my brother."
Kim: There you go.
Vikki: So listeners, if you aren't hooked, I don't know why not. Because when I read this book, the first chapter I was into two paragraphs and I'm like, oh, I got to know what happened. So very good Kim. I love it. Very, very good. So listeners, if you love the book, make sure you get. It's listed in the show notes . So Kim, how can people find you? Do you have a website? What's your favorite social media channel? Tell us a little bit about that.
Kim: Absolutely. You can find me at www.kimtaylorblakemore.com for the website and newsletter. And I also use Instagram. That's my active placements. Kim Taylor Blakemore books.
Vikki: Nice. I love Instagram. It's my favorite one.
Kim: I love it. It's like positive and fun and great.
Vikki: So here you are listeners. Here's your Vikki's action item. Find the book, email Kim, let her know you've read it. Do a review for the book. I can't remember Kim, if my review, if I've done one or not. I know I've read the book, so there's probably going to be a review if I haven't done on Goodreads and Amazon . Kim, I would love to bring you back on my YouTube channel. So listeners, that's The Authors Librarian on YouTube with your author friend. So we can go a little deeper into the discussion of the relationship of authors and librarians and how that can be successful.
Kim: I think that would be fantastic. And absolutely I will, get that together and we'll do that.
Vikki: Kim, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure meeting you. I'm so glad I met you online. We live not very far from each other. I know COVID and we met online. So I know thank you so much.
Vikki: Thank you for listening to the podcast. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. Make sure you jump on the show notes, find the author, buy their books, write a review. And most importantly, you can find out more about me on my projects at one of my two websites, www.squishpen.com or theauthorslibrarian.com . And until next time, this is Vikki J Carter, The Authors Librarian signing off.